How many keygroups?

How to use a keyboard controller with keygroup programs videos.


http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=QwxqH4-NLWY

Askia Shaheed wrote:people don't want this option.

People like who? I have never heard anyone knock this as an option for a new mpc.

Askia Shaheed wrote:It is difficult to find the analog expansion board for the MV.

all that means is you would have to have more of them made. and the people would buy them.

Askia Shaheed wrote: Plus..take a good look at those samplers with all those outputs. Those things were big and heavy. The last thing I would want in an MPC.

With todays advanes in technology Im pretty sure the size would come down alot and unless you are planning on taking this thing with you on bike riding trips everywhere you go I dont see this as being a concern anyone would have if they are givin the options they would like to have. And I know the 4k wouldnt get any bigger and thats 2001/2002 technology

Askia Shaheed wrote:Besides..if I was given an option, I would rather have just another ADAT port

yeah why not instead of having two analog expansions you'd have two adat expansions

Askia Shaheed wrote:(or another multi-digital out format) and connect it to my own DA converter if needed.

you are talking about something like WordClock right? Yeah this is onemore thing that they screwed the 5000 over on that the 4k has.

It's just my opinion..but you will never see a sampler, drum machines, or keyboard workstation with more than 10 analog outputs. It is no necessary today. If I am wrong, I will buy you lunch

But we are getting off track...what we need is a feature request thread here. I say this because MPC 1000/2500 and soon MPC 5000 users are getting what we want in an MPC. I don't want you guys/gals left out. Blue Haze, when are you going to start this thread.

Askia Shaheed wrote:It's just my opinion..but you will never see a sampler, drum machines, or keyboard workstation with more than 10 analog outputs. It is no necessary today. If I am wrong, I will buy you lunch

But we are getting off track...what we need is a feature request thread here. I say this because MPC 1000/2500 and soon MPC 5000 users are getting what we want in an MPC. I don't want you guys/gals left out. Blue Haze, when are you going to start this thread.

I don`t speculate I just make efforts to get the best out of my tools and try at least to understand what I`m using before buying and selling anything. Make an effort to learn something or share a tip on music production with others, that if you have anything you are capable of sharing besides specs???

If I want to know anything I would ask Sparq or make a phone call to Pro Audio Japan real users that knows what they are doing!

Blue Haze wrote:

Askia Shaheed wrote:It's just my opinion..but you will never see a sampler, drum machines, or keyboard workstation with more than 10 analog outputs. It is no necessary today. If I am wrong, I will buy you lunch

But we are getting off track...what we need is a feature request thread here. I say this because MPC 1000/2500 and soon MPC 5000 users are getting what we want in an MPC. I don't want you guys/gals left out. Blue Haze, when are you going to start this thread.

I don`t speculate I just make efforts to get the best out of my tools and try at least to understand what I`m using before buying and selling anything. Make an effort to learn something or share a tip on music production with others, that if you have anything you are capable of sharing besides specs???

If I want to know anything I would ask Sparq or make a phone call to Pro Audio Japan real users that knows what they are doing!

Well..actually I have but when every useful thread about the MPC 5K I or anyone else writes, it gets trolled by people that don't care for the unit. There is no moderation in the MPC 5000 forum. This is the reason why you don't see the beta testers there any more... and several MPC 5000 users stop visiting the forums. So I am left with just talking about specs....

You don't get any more passes for implying that I don't know what I am doing with any of my gear. You will have me challenging you to a beat battle if you are not careful. And I don't normally do this. But I am tired of talking about specs like the next person...lets give the people a real taste of what these machines can do So I guess that answers your question. I have more to share besides specs....

Askia Shaheed wrote:

Blue Haze wrote:

Askia Shaheed wrote:It's just my opinion..but you will never see a sampler, drum machines, or keyboard workstation with more than 10 analog outputs. It is no necessary today. If I am wrong, I will buy you lunch

But we are getting off track...what we need is a feature request thread here. I say this because MPC 1000/2500 and soon MPC 5000 users are getting what we want in an MPC. I don't want you guys/gals left out. Blue Haze, when are you going to start this thread.

I don`t speculate I just make efforts to get the best out of my tools and try at least to understand what I`m using before buying and selling anything. Make an effort to learn something or share a tip on music production with others, that if you have anything you are capable of sharing besides specs???

If I want to know anything I would ask Sparq or make a phone call to Pro Audio Japan real users that knows what they are doing!

Well..actually I have but when every useful thread about the MPC 5K I or anyone else writes, it gets trolled by people that don't care for the unit. There is no moderation in the MPC 5000 forum. This is the reason why you don't see the beta testers there any more... and several MPC 5000 users stop visiting the forums. So I am left with just talking about specs....

You don't get any more passes for implying that I don't know what I am doing with any of my gear. You will have me challenging you to a beat battle if you are not careful. And I don't normally do this. But I am tired of talking about specs like the next person...lets give the people a real taste of what these machines can do So I guess that answers your question. I have more to share besides specs....

It won`t be about the machines it the man and the little boy mainly (you) behind the machines bring what you got loudmouth!

CHALLONNGE!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaBTaok3qG0

The challenge is coming....

But I want to get back to keygroups for a second. Because of all this back and forth with Blue Haze about keygroups, I went out and purchased two CD Rom libraries today (cost me over $100). The CD Roms were made by Pro Samples and they came in Akai, EXS24, Halion, etc format. So I opened up the manual and checked out the sample contents. I looked at the Stereo Grand Piano. It contained 40 samples. In reality, it was 20 sounds panned left and right. So I loaded this Akai S series format program into my keymap sampler, which automatically mapped them to my keyboard for playing. Then I loaded these same wav files into my MPC 5000. I created an MPC 5000 program and assigned the sounds to pads. I used the keymap sampler as a reference. I made sure that the keymap sampler's ADSR envelopes and pitch/tune parameters matched what I had in the MPC 5000. I also made sure the Note ON/One Shot and Mono/Poly settings matched perfectly. When I played them back, this program sound identical on both machines. So unless you spend big money on a sample library which contains numerous sample layers (MPCs still support 4) and is able to store exclusive parameters specific to a sampler..the only advantage a keygroup sampler gives me when loading commerical CDs is saved time.

Askia Shaheed wrote:The challenge is coming....

But I want to get back to keygroups for a second. Because of all this back and forth with Blue Haze about keygroups, I went out and purchased two CD Rom libraries today (cost me over $100). The CD Roms were made by Pro Samples and they came in Akai, EXS24, Halion, etc format. So I opened up the manual and checked out the sample contents. I looked at the Stereo Grand Piano. It contained 40 samples. In reality, it was 20 sounds panned left and right. So I loaded this Akai S series format program into my keymap sampler, which automatically mapped them to my keyboard for playing. Then I loaded these same wav files into my MPC 5000. I created an MPC 5000 program and assigned the sounds to pads. I used the keymap sampler as a reference. I made sure that the keymap sampler's ADSR envelopes and pitch/tune parameters matched what I had in the MPC 5000. I also made sure the Note ON/One Shot and Mono/Poly settings matched perfectly. When I played them back, this program sound identical on both machines. So unless you spend big money on a sample library which contains numerous sample layers (MPCs still support 4) and is able to store exclusive parameters specific to a sampler..the only advantage a keygroup sampler gives me when loading commerical CDs is saved time.

Let`see you layered 20 samples over 20 pads or to a 64 to 88 midi keyboard which is it?


Actually mpc have zones not layers already explained we layer programs along with the zone within them and modulate them, is it registering yet? Enough with you, be off !!!

Correction On the 5k they do call zones layers meaning to layer soft, mid, hard and very loud sample hits in a drum pad assigned to one midi note like any drum program. On studio samplers we layer keygroups containing 4 zones over other keygroups containing 4 zones as many as one wishes for a expressive piano Jah tried to make on the 5k and pretty much any mpc 60, 3k, 2k, and so forth with all of work.

What he fails to understand for the up teeth time is that studio samplers just like the FANTOM he`s collected along with the rest layers multiple Programs and crossfades the them into a combinations, multis that makes the wonderful sounds.

Simple, simple, simple.


You can try to use the 4 zones and be at it all day using a 2xl too. But like my old triton it is simple to load in several programs say that piano along with strings, flutes, and rez lead synths programs and combine them all under one multi using one midi channel crossfading them with tilt velocity and modulating with assigned controllers from my keyboard and 4k.

I don`t know what the dude doesn`t comprehend he has the star trek bridgework in his studio and he doesn`t understand what a multi sampler does???

Askia Shaheed wrote:It's just my opinion..but you will never see a sampler, drum machines, or keyboard workstation with more than 10 analog outputs. It is not necessary today.

What makes it not necessary?

I guess you missed the part where I loaded these samples into a keygroup sampler and the MPC 5K and they sound indentical.

I am aware that a full sampler can layer a keygroup with 4 zones over another keygroup with 4 zones. But how many sample libraries today have these expressive programs?

Askia Shaheed wrote:I guess you missed the part where I loaded these samples into a keygroup sampler and the MPC 5K and they sound indentical.

I am aware that a full sampler can layer a keygroup with 4 zones over another keygroup with 4 zones. But how many sample libraries today have these expressive programs?

No we missed the part of did you load samples over 20 pads or over 64 to 88 keys which you still haven`t answered??



Plus if I`m using a studio sampler to layer over other programs I don`t really need to use the full zones, would I? Cuz I`m cross fading between programs like I said go back to your phrase sampler and try to layer a piano program, string program, voice program, and rez program with different filters, lfos, envs and see if you can do it?

Get it through your simple head your simplified setup of one keygroup done on a drum program can be done on any mpc with alot of work. But what you still fail to understand the difference every between keygroups and drum programs.


A program is simply midi notes assign to which sounds are assign C1 through G8 each with a env, lfo, filter and amp parameters allowing 4 zones of soft, mid, hard and very hard samples to be velocity switched or stacked as one sound.

The catch is that a drum program is design to cover only one keyspan assigned to just ONE NOTE for a kit kick, snare, hi hat, and etc as constant tune so you have 128 notes at constant tuning with one program per TRACK.


A Keygroup on the other hand is design to cover freely any keyspan covering many NOTES tuned to the keys of a keyboards and they all can be stacked over the same note if necessary allowing each keygroup to cover the same midi note say C3 several times with different Filters, LFOS, ENVs, amp and etc.

You have more power to customized the sounds into your liking using synth parameters and on top of that you can now layer all the keygroups within that ONE PROGRAM over Other PRograms that have the same ability and crossfade horizontal and verticallly to made your own combinations beautifully and simply.


I usually use found sounds but to using Jah sample cd is to load the piano programs with samples, rhodes programs, voice programs and any found sounds and sound design in one multi like combinator videos I have been showing all along.

Elementary Jah this is the process that all sound designers use to create the great presets on your workstations can you create your own???? You had a 4k for three months and sold it because you claim it was too computer like and you claim that you mastered it and so on. I doubt you did because you are now back asking what can a keygroup program do and what the videos I have posted have to do with using the 4k, you really don`t know, do you?

It is true that everything is about samples, but most importantly is how you can use them. Why would one want to use the full power of a studio sampler??? Sadly most of the studio samplers manufactories have moved on into soft samplers which operates on the same principles of the 4k abet more automations and possibilities.


Mostly what I learn with soft samplers I transferred back to my 4k and midi keyboard that the point a MIDI KEYBOARD JAH not just the 20 pads.

Anyway I`m finished come with your beats if you got them and your 5k is a phrase drum sampler that anyone with patience, tenacity, experience, and know how can do some of the things I mentioned if they the man mastered their craft and tools. But why reach for a soup up 2xl with a harddrive recorder to layer programs when I have the 4k in my possession already, you have to think about it.

By the way you only became aware that a full sampler can layer 4 zones over another keygroup +4 zones along with the early hip hop pioneers using them in their studios after I told you. You are kind of like a parrot you repeat what I say and run back claiming that you understood when you knew zitch. You claim to have had a S3000 in your studio only after I said it when before you stated all you used was the MPC 3000 and nothing else and how for hip hop it wasn`t necessary.

Look at yourself man, are you really helping the board or yourself?

You are going to LLLLOOVEE THIS JAH, break it now use your tool behind your eyes the lyrics are for you.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=G_tWvlicMQw

You are incorrect. You haven't taught me anything. When I ask you questions, it is simply to get you to respond in detail for you to understand what you are talking about as well as to inform others. You didn't know much about keygroups until I pressed you on the issue.

Also, I didn't say I have an S3000 sampler. What I said was that I loaded an S series format CD Rom into my keymap sampler. To answer your question directly, I believe I am helping the forum whether you can see this or not. It really isn't about me. I am an MPC dude and will always be. I am for the advancement of MPCs...even the 4K or a future 4K type of product. If you put the sort of effort you have been putting into these keygroup sampler threads...into positive feedback to Akai about what you want in an MPC, then perhaps you will have your dream machine. If you can't believe anything I have ever written here....at least believe me when I say that Akai is listening to forum feedback. That is why I got you worked up into talking about these things. This is not about me..this is about MPCs.

So thanks for your great input and support in these forums. I have no animosity towards you. But the beat battle challenge has been made and still stands...put I won't press you on that matter.

Askia Shaheed wrote:the beat battle challenge has been made and still stands...but I won't press you on that matter.

And in this corner, we have the...

AWW_NAWW wrote:

Askia Shaheed wrote:It's just my opinion..but you will never see a sampler, drum machines, or keyboard workstation with more than 10 analog outputs. It is not necessary today.

What makes it not necessary?

I'll repeat