Make prof. sounding, puchny kicks drums with your MPC1000

Forum to discuss all matters relating to the MPC1000 and MPC2500 operating systems created by 'JJ' (all versions).
 Reply Share on Facebook

Make prof. sounding, puchny kicks drums with your MPC1000

By phazer1980 Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:31 am
Hi MPC-lovers.

When I am not making music I use a lot of time programming new sounds on my synths and make new cool drum sounds.

I have wondered for years how those deep, hard and punchy sounding kicks you find on pro.sample CDs are made, because no drum machine out there can make so punchy and deeep kick drums.

But I think I have now found the trick.'

I usually make a new kick sound like this:

In JJ OS2XL i make PadA01 trigger
PadA02,
PadA03,
PadA04 and
PadA05
using SIMULT trig and then mix samples like this:

PadA01: (no sample)
PadA02: A Roland Tr808 sample
PadA03: A Roland Tr909 sample
PadA04: A deep sinus kick drum from a synth* (explain later)
PadA05: (I have found no use for a fourth sample when making kick drums, but SIMULT trig alows trigging of 4 pads and maybe this is useful is you are making snares, claps etc.)

*Deep Sinus Kick Drum From a Synth
The "deep sinus" kick can come from any source; you can just use samples from a Roland SH09 of deep sinus kicks or somthing similar, or you can make them on any synth than can make a sinus tone fall quickly from a high pitch to a very low one. If you synth does NOT have a sinus waveform i any of it oscillators (which most one don't) you can use the synths' selfoscillating fiter (if it has one) to make the falling sinus tone. For punchy house/trance kick you will need a sample where the pitch drops from high pitch to low very quickly.Wher you hear this sound, you will see that it lacks a "natural" klick in the very begining, and that's the whole idea of mixed the samples.

(Always leave PadA01 with no samples, because then you can hear all the samples in you mixed drum sound alone by hitting PadA02-A05. If PadA01 DO have a sample you can never hear that sample alone, so leave PadA01 with no sample using it only to trigger the other pads)

The individual samples does not sound very punchy alone, but when you mix those 3 samples you get:
1: The nice klick from the tr808 sample
2: Another nice klick from the beginning of the tr909 sample
3: And very importantly, you get the deep tone you need from the deep "sinus"-like kick from some synth.

You will have to finetune the samples individual levels, tuning, maybe ENV-ADSR for pitch (very useful for the deep sinus kick) and maybe more.
Experiment, experiment and experiment, use trial and error and you will end up wiwth some awesome kicks sounds

But by using the technique, you can REALLY make some cool, new kicks. Just as good as those on prof. drum sample CDs. There will no unwanted noise or other sounds mixed in with your kick as with some sampleCDs, and you can fine tune your sound to perfection.

I really hope anyone can use this.
(Sorry for spelling)

Re: Make prof. sounding, puchny kicks drums with your MPC1000

By B15HOP Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:05 pm
phazer1980 wrote:Hi MPC-lovers.

When I am not making music I use a lot of time programming new sounds on my synths and make new cool drum sounds.

I have wondered for years how those deep, hard and punchy sounding kicks you find on pro.sample CDs are made, because no drum machine out there can make so punchy and deeep kick drums.

But I think I have now found the trick.'

I usually make a new kick sound like this:

In JJ OS2XL i make PadA01 trigger
PadA02,
PadA03,
PadA04 and
PadA05
using SIMULT trig and then mix samples like this:

PadA01: (no sample)
PadA02: A Roland Tr808 sample
PadA03: A Roland Tr909 sample
PadA04: A deep sinus kick drum from a synth* (explain later)
PadA05: (I have found no use for a fourth sample when making kick drums, but SIMULT trig alows trigging of 4 pads and maybe this is useful is you are making snares, claps etc.)

*Deep Sinus Kick Drum From a Synth
The "deep sinus" kick can come from any source; you can just use samples from a Roland SH09 of deep sinus kicks or somthing similar, or you can make them on any synth than can make a sinus tone fall quickly from a high pitch to a very low one. If you synth does NOT have a sinus waveform i any of it oscillators (which most one don't) you can use the synths' selfoscillating fiter (if it has one) to make the falling sinus tone. For punchy house/trance kick you will need a sample where the pitch drops from high pitch to low very quickly.Wher you hear this sound, you will see that it lacks a "natural" klick in the very begining, and that's the whole idea of mixed the samples.

(Always leave PadA01 with no samples, because then you can hear all the samples in you mixed drum sound alone by hitting PadA02-A05. If PadA01 DO have a sample you can never hear that sample alone, so leave PadA01 with no sample using it only to trigger the other pads)

The individual samples does not sound very punchy alone, but when you mix those 3 samples you get:
1: The nice klick from the tr808 sample
2: Another nice klick from the beginning of the tr909 sample
3: And very importantly, you get the deep tone you need from the deep "sinus"-like kick from some synth.

You will have to finetune the samples individual levels, tuning, maybe ENV-ADSR for pitch (very useful for the deep sinus kick) and maybe more.
Experiment, experiment and experiment, use trial and error and you will end up wiwth some awesome kicks sounds

But by using the technique, you can REALLY make some cool, new kicks. Just as good as those on prof. drum sample CDs. There will no unwanted noise or other sounds mixed in with your kick as with some sampleCDs, and you can fine tune your sound to perfection.

I really hope anyone can use this.
(Sorry for spelling)



Great post bro, Thats dedication right there!!! :D
User avatar

Re: Make prof. sounding, puchny kicks drums with your MPC1000

By Sooty_G Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:03 am
layering sounds is definitely a big help, and the MPC makes it easy to do.
but 9 times out of 10, when people talk about 'punchy' sounds, it's all due to the use of compression.

compressors are important. the MPCs built-in master compressor isn't that bad. i ALWAYS have it turned on for every project i work on & tweak the settings. it helps give definition to your beats & keeps all your different sound levels under control.

Re: Make prof. sounding, puchny kicks drums with your MPC1000

By phazer1980 Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:29 am
I know that compression kan do alot for a kick drum, even more so if its a good ANALOG compressor.

BUT if you have a standard 909 kick drum you can't use compression to get more punchy bottom/bass/low.

My advice is (again)
Take good deep kick sound from a synth, like Roland JX-10/JX-8P/SH-01 (you need to use filter selfoscillation for falling sinus tones). These are basically just falling sinus tones, that do NOT make up a good kick soud by itself.

Then mix in a 808 kick sound (maybe you only ned the "click" and not the rest/the "boom")

And the do the same thing with a 909 kick sound (again maybe just the start of the drum sound, the "click".

And by mixing those you have quite a punchy kick even without finetuning.
When you have done you tuning, mixing, filtering+ENV, pitch+ENV etc. THEN run it trough a puchy compressor and you will end up with kicks sound that people will want to pay you for.

Where can I upload my new and fresh kick sound on this site?
I have also made a MPC1000 program with a lot of samples of all 3 types (falling sinus, 808 and 909), so you can start playing round with you own kick sounds right away

I have also made a multisampled JX-10 Bass that spans 2 octaves, and I realy sounds DEEP, mean and ANALOG.

Where can I upload that stuff?

Re: Make prof. sounding, puchny kicks drums with your MPC1000

By phazer1980 Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:38 am
BTW: I have TC PowerCore that commes with like 3 compressors. These are in fact HARDWARE compressors because they run on the DSPs of the PowerCore board, EVEN though they have a VST user interface.

But does any of you guys know if the compressors of TC PowerCore is any good compard with "outboard" compressors? I know the reverbs of PowerCore are the most beautiful, natural and awesome sounding reverbs I have ever heard. They are like 20 x better than the MPC1000 reverbs.

Therefore I quite often record a synth line into cubase, put the PowerCore reverb on in and then sample the reverbed synth line into the MPC and then it sound like the MPC suddenly has 1 $10000 reverb :)

I talk too much, sorry.

My question was: Is the compressors in TC PowerCore any good for anything?
User avatar

Re: Make prof. sounding, puchny kicks drums with your MPC1000

By ryssen Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:13 am
phazer1980 wrote:BTW: I have TC PowerCore that commes with like 3 compressors. These are in fact HARDWARE compressors because they run on the DSPs of the PowerCore board, EVEN though they have a VST user interface.


And Windows is actually HARDWARE because it runs on the physical processor and utilizes the RAM in your computer, EVEN though it has a traditional software interface?

phazer1980 wrote:My question was: Is the compressors in TC PowerCore any good for anything?


Well, as always, thet's up for the individual user to decide. My old Behringer comp can be used with great success on some tasks although I might turn to my Joe Meek or older dbx's if a more interesting flavour is wanted.
Try the stuff out in different contexts, pretty soon you'll be able to make up your own mind on the quality of your gear and plug-ins.
User avatar

Re: Make prof. sounding, puchny kicks drums with your MPC1000

By Lampdog Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:51 pm
ryssen wrote:
phazer1980 wrote:BTW: I have TC PowerCore that commes with like 3 compressors. These are in fact HARDWARE compressors because they run on the DSPs of the PowerCore board, EVEN though they have a VST user interface.


And Windows is actually HARDWARE because it runs on the physical processor and utilizes the RAM in your computer, EVEN though it has a traditional software interface?

Wow.

Re: Make prof. sounding, puchny kicks drums with your MPC1000

By phazer1980 Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:50 am
Haha....guess I walked right into that one.

I get your point about all software being hardware as it uses hardware to run. But I think that as good as everyone got the idea from what I wrote..

TC PowerCore is MORE like a digital dedicatedd FX processor, because everything (alomst) is computed by DSPs (a kind of "sound specific" chips)

It is more or less the same as in Quake II where you could choose between the all-software rendering engine using the CPU and you could choose hardware-rendering which used the the 3d rendering hardware for most drawing tasks.

And the all-software option looked really "pixelly" and "2D" compared to the hardware-aasisted drawing.

It is kind of the same when comparing VST FX running on the CPU and VST FX using custom DSP chips.

Re: Make prof. sounding, puchny kicks drums with your MPC1000

By phazer1980 Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:10 am
Here are 8 kick drums I made with "Kick Drum Making" program for MPC1000.
(and no compression, EQ, filters or other FX used)

So by listening to these samples maybe you can imagine what you can do with that "Kick Making Program".

WAVE Samples__Mixed Kicks.rar - 0.16MB

Much better kicks could certainly be made using this technique, but these are stil 100 times better than "Stomper" kicks and similar.

I can upload the program with a lot of "partials" (samples the make og part of the final kick drums sound), if anyone has interrest.

Re: Make prof. sounding, puchny kicks drums with your MPC1000

By Emilie Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:53 pm
phazer1980 wrote:Haha....guess I walked right into that one.

I get your point about all software being hardware as it uses hardware to run. But I think that as good as everyone got the idea from what I wrote..

TC PowerCore is MORE like a digital dedicatedd FX processor, because everything (alomst) is computed by DSPs (a kind of "sound specific" chips)

It is more or less the same as in Quake II where you could choose between the all-software rendering engine using the CPU and you could choose hardware-rendering which used the the 3d rendering hardware for most drawing tasks.

And the all-software option looked really "pixelly" and "2D" compared to the hardware-aasisted drawing.

It is kind of the same when comparing VST FX running on the CPU and VST FX using custom DSP chips.


DSP's (Digital Signal Processors) aren't nothing but dedicated computers that simulates an analog circuit.

It's the same if i say that the cold from my fridge isn't real because it's not coming from the outside.




































Wow.
User avatar

Re: Make prof. sounding, puchny kicks drums with your MPC1000

By ryssen Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:04 pm
phazer1980 wrote:I get your point about all software being hardware as it uses hardware to run. But I think that as good as everyone got the idea from what I wrote..


I don't think many people here misunderstood you. On the contrary, I think you have some basics wrong on the part of digital computing...
Most people interested in recording technology is pretty well familiar with the concept of external DSP's as means of expanding computing power. Many consumer audio interfaces have integrated DSP's as well as your Powercore and the somewhat more popular line of UAD cards. When I first sat in front of a Pro Tools system back in -96 there were dedicated DSP cards handling the audio related number crunching.

phazer1980 wrote:TC PowerCore is MORE like a digital dedicatedd FX processor, because everything (alomst) is computed by DSPs (a kind of "sound specific" chips)


DSP's is by no means a processor aimed towards sound. It does what it's surrounding code tells it to do. A Powercore set up is the equivalent of having a separate computer crunching the code designed specifically for that unit. I other words, it's working by the same basic principles as any native plug-in and computer processor works, with the added convenience of slimming the code to work only against one type of hardware environment and practically no burdens for the computer assisted.
Some chips work better for some tasks than others, however (and this is the biggie you seem to have missed) no processor is better than it's code. No single one. All it can do is process is quicker, or process multiple strings simultaneus, but it will not make anything sound in anyway different than the same string of code run through a native processor.

phazer1980 wrote:It is more or less the same as in Quake II where you could choose between the all-software rendering engine using the CPU and you could choose hardware-rendering which used the the 3d rendering hardware for most drawing tasks.

And the all-software option looked really "pixelly" and "2D" compared to the hardware-aasisted drawing.


Probably because resolution lowered and some esoteric vector parameters were disabled in accordance to the calculated processing power of your computer, which I guess was somewhat 2000-ish and pretty much relied on a heavy duty graphics card. No multi-core, wide bussed processors as in these days.

phazer1980 wrote:It is kind of the same when comparing VST FX running on the CPU and VST FX using custom DSP chips.


No, using a vst which could run on a native processor as well as an external DSP would yield the exact same audible result. The difference would be the number of parallel plugs you could run, which would depend on the processing power of the different environments, a race that there are no guarantees the DSP would win.
Again, what might differ between a native plug in and a DSP plug in is the fact that a specific DSP envirnoment makes it possible to write a somewhat slimmer and effective code due to it's mono-environment.
One big thing is also that the plugs that only work in one (rather expensive) DSP environment (UAD, Powercore, PT TDM) will need to sound pretty damn good to motivate customers putting up big bucks for the hardware. However, that quality is only the result of intelligent and effective engineers and programmers and their skills could just as easily be exhibited within your PC or Mac.

Re: Make prof. sounding, puchny kicks drums with your MPC1000

By Anamorphosis Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:47 am
layering various kicks with different frequency ranges will yield the same results without the need for compression compensation... for me personally i only use compression when my basslines are fighting with the kick drums... you can use eq just as effectively as compression...for example i usually like to layer my kicks by starting out with the kick that grabs my attention the most, then work around making it unique by adding some subtle kick drum to the bottom or on top if that makes sense... if the kick i like happens to be very muffled and dry i might add a snappy hollowed kick to it followed by a deep kick with reverb on the lower end but i might turn the volume down slightly on the reverb/snappy samples and have the kick that im focusing on be slightly louder than the other two just to give it depth and make it my own.

Re: Make prof. sounding, puchny kicks drums with your MPC1000

By jimmie Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:25 am
For me, making kicks is all about layering and simulting different sounds, altering individual amp and filter envelopes, sample start points, etc and then maybe re-sampling it after going through external processors (normally a compressor or two). Many people already know about the technique of layering a low freq sinus wave underneath, but nice 1 for writing about it here, it really does add a weighty sub.
I have a DBX 120A which is a hardware processor that adds some sub to the sound you put through it. Gotta be careful with sub though as it can really lower the overall volume of your complete track if not controlled properly. It's all about experimentation and making frequencies fit in your track as a whole and that's why I love it. :mrgreen:
 Reply
Return to MPC1000/2500 JJ OS