Maschine vs MPC 4000

I think it would be neat to hear songs done by people here where in one song, they use every piece of gear they own that makes noise... for example like s950 for the snare sound, micro korg for a bass sound, 808 for the 808 sound, etc... I thought about doing that with my gear a while back.

Blue Haze wrote:MPC sequencing is easy and useful. If one is familiar with it is a no brainer to sequence your software synth or hardware with your mpc. Maschine has a extensive and brilliant library so you can't front on that. Of course logic and third party effects are outstanding which is common sense; however, machines effects are more capable than mpcs including the 5k. The best of both worlds is recording, arranging, editing, and mixing in the daw which maschine outshines the mpc hence I don't resample or JD either maschine's library into my mpc. It would be redundant. Plus phrase sample editing on the maschine is fast and convient. I also use maschine as a controller for the other software in my DAW. Maschine can be use just by itself without. However as most on this forum use an mpc it to their advantage to use everything in their arsenal to get the best sound. Collecting gear is unproductive, it is better to bang out beats with all you have mastered.

I disagree. Maschine's library isn't any more extensive or brilliant than any library that comes with NI products or any of the leading sofsamplers on the market. Its effects don't impress either. In general, people don't buy MPCs for their effects...especially since everyone has a DAW these days. So for anyone pro-Maschine to mention that as a plus to get one over an MPC...I simply laugh because there are so many reasons why Maschine is just another sound module to me. It is by far the weakest software sampler on the market compared to others in its price range. You need to look no further than NI's own sampler line up. I am not sure what you mean by phrase sample editing is "fast and convient" because an MPC 5000, 2500, and 1000 are all superior samplers and sample editors. This is a fact..and all the users at the NI forums that use MPCs, begged them to improve in this area. Don't get me started on anything that deals with tweaking the sounds and layering drums...Maschine is way behind. NI admits this and promises an improvement in a future OS update. While we wait for this...an MPC or any leading software sampler is ideal. Maschine does not do any more outshining any plugin when it comes to recording, arranging, editing, and mixing in the daw. This is common sense. An MPC is no more difficult to record, arrange, edit, and mix within a DAW than a keyboard, piano, drum set, or a vocalist singing into a microphone.

Now implying that someone collects gear...especially when you have never met them is unproductive. And yes....I do have plenty of gear at my finger tips including Maschine whose controller is collecting dust (I mentioned that already )

...yes, we all know the phrase use the best of both worlds. But if this is the case, your DAW...Kontakt...and an MPC is much better than....a DAW, Maschine, and an MPC. This is just my opinion of owning/using all of these products.

Bottom line...if anyone want to buy Maschine...I say great buy it. If you want to get it as a replacement for an MPC...great but know what you gain and what you lose. Do I believe those that depend on MPCs for their bread and butter to buy Maschine? Not really. I would consider another software synth. Machine has potential. The concept is great. It can actually replace an MPC if NI improves the OS and hardware design.

Blue Haze wrote:Actually the same I wasn't using maschine for a minute because despite the ease in editing on maschine and the large library I ended back my 4k cuz of the groove and feel I had with it. I even sampled some kits into my 4k also after at first failing to properly sync the two together along with the chromatic pads layout of the 4k and maschine not matching. I was until yesterday using 4k and maschine separately with the majority of my recent production strictly on the 4k. When I saw the video I knew that JD's engineer had to figure out the.setup for him to get it to work. So I went back via the iPad (it is a big difference and a relief to find info via iPad than a desktop computer for long manuals) recheck the PDF manual and found the midi setup functions and now I can sequence everything on the 4k matching pad per pad. You are right that with a 60, SP1200, 3k or any mpc you can sequence any software like a mpc 60 and S950 combo.

Yes indeed mpcs will last forever and work in tandem with whatever new soft sampler that are release seems like a lot pros work in part this way too.

All I have to do is reply with the same answer as before that I first stated. You may disagree but you are wrong Maschine is excellent sampler and SEQUENCER in it`s own right. All the other samplers battery, kontkact, and others are just samplers. The plus of maschine is all of the parameters can be tweaked in realtime with the controllers. Not even all of battery`s parameters can be CC assigned. Konkant can be CC assigned but for me Maschine is presets it is easier. Yes I stated again that the Maschines editing is way faster than current and previous MPCs I had my share of mpcs too. I you understand midi setup then of course you can layer and tweak your drums on maschine just like 20 yrs ago. I sequence on my 4k which allows me even to have 2 midi channels like the 3k output per track. Maschine allows me to assign as many sounds aka pads to the same midi note which in turn can be assign to the channel. I had to go deeper to understanding my tools.

The rest of your statements about record, arrange, edit, and mix is way, way, way, way off the point. You are coming from the concept of audio recording. I`m working in the realm of MIDI which most users understand that is convient, fast, and practical for composers to get the right sound they want before they commit to audio. Your concept is all wrapped in audio which will greatly depend on your performance right out the box, the a/d converters you use to record, the right levels, the right tracking, micro audio editing and the whole nines. Last I check you were no great engineer. Nevertheless the MPC 4k with my software tools allow me personally to stay within the MIDI realm to get the composition I want until I`m ready to commit to audio by bouncing down and mixing the stems. Which is why I love Maschine for keeping my production in the box along with my MPC giving me a hardware hands on approach. That is the best of both.


It isn`t all about the gear it is the user. In my opinion if you put it in the hands of the right person and he or she can make bangers with just maschine. Bottom line I prefer my approach of my combination of mpc sequencer and the maschine library, editing, effects and it`s build in sequencer. But each user has to play with one, LEARN IT ( I`m still learning new things with mine so I can get the most out of it rather than toss it to the side as another wasteful collection), and master it.

The improvement happens alot with the user improving his or her reasoning no matter the hardware design. I come to find the more I improve myself the more I can do with my tools regardless of updates or not.

Study the past to know the present.

Since all the other Maschine versus MPC threads have been locked, we have to discuss it here. Maschine maybe faster at sampling and editing than the MPC 4000, this is certainly not the case with the MPC 2500 or 5000 which I have years of experience with. Maschine does not chop samples better than an MPC especially if you use the JJ OS. Maschine doesn't have a single sample editing feature that any of the latest MPCs doesn't have. On the flip side, there are several editing functions on the MPC 2500/5000 that is not possible with Maschine. I have these products sitting side by side so I know this. You can simply download the MPC 2500/5000 manual to see for yourself or visit the Maschine feature request threads over at the NI forum. Everybody knows you can layer MIDI notes so that it triggers sounds at the same time. This is not what I am talking about. And it certainly has nothing to do with your deeper understanding of your tools. Because "your tool" can quickly layer several sounds on top of each other without adding additional MIDI notes into the sequencer. I will not take this further especially since NI acknowledges this in the question and answer threads and indicate they are working on a better way to do this in upcoming OS updates.

While Maschine's parameters can be tweaked in realtime using its controller, these parameters are far less extensive than any of the software samplers you mentioned. I would much have the power of Kontakt and Battery (I own/use Battery 3) than deal with the limited parameters in Maschine. I simply redirect this argument to the NI forums where you see other Maschine users request the features of Kontakt and Battery. NI clearly admits that they focused of the integration of Maschine's software and its controller while Kontakt and Battery are better samplers.I can go on..but then it will take the discussion further away from Maschine vs MPC.

Your opinion about putting Maschine in the hands of the right person and they can makes bangers is way, way, way off point. I can't remember anyone saying you can't make music using Maschine. Compare/Contrast thread...hello. Last time I checked, this was the Machine versus MPC thread which is exactly about the gear...and not you or anyone else as a user. You can have your opinion about what Maschine can offer. And I have mine and gave specific examples numerous times. Maschine is collecting dust because I can do nearly everything it does with an MPC. The things it does that are not possible with an MPC are so insignificant.

Anyway...most of this was covered in the first few pages of this thread. I invite Maschine users over to the NI forum to directly discuss your issues with Maschine so NI can improve them. One day it may be more than just a plug-in.

Chop shop you are mentioning isn't all that and yes I have used all mpcs. No I haven't bought them all like you but through my connect I had them all in my home studio except the mpc 60. And yes maschine can chop better than them all including the 5k. You can split, threshold, region, or manually edit all using the pads and knobs fast. I like to use manual editing than a preset region edit and maschine flies no doubt.

Really, everybody knows midi note layering? Then you can do it with your mpc also. From the 1k to 5k mpcs layer like the 4k does a pad with 4 layers to assign sound but the envelopes apply to all on the pad and the selection of the filter is the same allowing only some substractive adjustment parameters to each. When using 4k in conjunction with maschine each note can have all envelopes, filters, and etc done separately for effective blending of the sounds. Anyway is it like the old 3k, 2k, 2kxl layer of just 3 sounds each retain thier own parameters ( akai should have kept this and add more) on my 4k and the 5k too we have to editi the sample befote hand before layering. Maschine allows me to layer as many as I can put on the pad layout.

It all has to do with the user getting the job done rather than claiming what can't be done. So a deeper understanding of the gear is necessary.

Seeing you were talking about layering midi notes on a track and I am talking about assigning the pads to the same midi note just like the previous 2xl and 3k. A difference indeed how much it is about the user understanding what you can do rather than easily tossing gear aside to the closet after a month or two of use. I warned you before you bought it that you get out of it what you put in.


One man trash is another's treasure. I like maschine a lot and with each new update it just adds more to the plate. I never stated that maschine is a replacement personally for my mpc as I feel the sequencing has a way to go. And I admit I'm still the most comfortable on the mpc than logic, or maschine sequencer for rhythm and groove parts. But others I heard and seen using maschine or any sequencer can really groove on it so yes it is indeed up to the user as no two persons are the same.

Anyone wanting to buy the unit should always try it out, read the manual to learn the capabilities (some don't read and then claim it doesn't do this or that) and if the opportunity arises watch a master at work to gain tips on it too.

Chopping samples:
How does Maschine chop better than the MPC 2500/1000 or 5000 exactly? You have certainly not used the JJ OS for sure. I won't go into a silly debate especially when any actual Maschine and MPC user knows the truth and it is well documented in the NI forum that what you are saying isn't accurate. Maschine's manual chopping is fixed a specific increments. You can't dial in 7 chops as an example. You can't have adjacent chopped regions overlap as you can with the MPC 2500/1000's non-destructive chopping. In fact, you can't do any fine editing using zoom in because it is a bug that we are waiting on NI to fix. (the bug has been confirmed by NI). Maschine does not do this:
http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~mpc1000/os2xl/trim.htm


Additional sample editing:
Maschine has only the most basic sample editing features. An MPC has all of Maschine's sample editing features and quite a few more. Maschine doesn't even have basic time stretching and pitch shifting which nearly all samplers have these days including MPCs.

Layering samples:
Layering sounds is nearly the #1 complaint about Maschine (see NI forums). NI's Q & A has acknowledge this. They claim it will be addressed in an upcoming OS. So for you to say otherwise is laugable. Maschine's layering is limited when you compare it to any of the latest MPCs. MPC has sample layers..Maschine doesn't. MPCs have simult function...Maschine doesn't. Maschine only allows you to layer sounds via keygroup which is the same as the MPC 4000/5000. Speaking for the MPC 5000, it does all of this better than Maschine.

Maschine updates:
You haven't owned Maschine long enough for any updates You got your unit just before I got mine. OS 1.5 was already available and there has been no new updates. So I can't understand why you are talking about each new update.

Maschine's sequencer:
I acknowledge that Maschine's sequencer is different than any sequencer I have ever used. I don't like the way it is laid out. I prefer tracks which Maschine doesn't have. It in no way compares to an MPC on any level in my opinion. However, you can make music with it like any other sequencer which isn't exactly my point. I just want to highlight that I believe the MPC is better and Maschine will not replace sequencing on an MPC...or sequencing in Logic.

It goes without saying that anyone wanting to buy Maschine (or any product) should try it out. That phrase should just be a sticky posted at the top of the page. But getting back to Maschine and an MPC, it does not compare to an MPC at all. And since I do have both, I am willing to compare specific features....any time.

Maschine vs MPC is what the thread is about. Let's continue to focus and keep the thread on that.

Mostly everything you just said I CAN do on maschine point blank . Sure you can dial 7 slices you don't know that?

Sure you can adjust the start and end points!

Sure you can zoom in on the sample on the desktop with more resolution than any mpc screen even the LCD of the 5k. What are you talking about!sv

I chop manually very fast on maschine and of course done this way I can control how much overlap I want. Too much dependance on auto chop is a hindrance in any producers arsenal. As a matter of fact auto chopping is a handicap for phrases in my book unless you are dealing with a drum loop you want to separate for drum hits.

Anyways I could go on and on but what be the point if you don't already know these basic capabilities of the gear. I guess you have money to burn but, no time to learn.

A lot of falsehoods is posted on the net often so it is important to weed it out.

I also upgraded to 1.5 as I picked my unit before the update for a few week and I just learning it rather than complain about it didn't have. I had to mental adjust to it's workflow but I was inspired by the work and flow of knocksquared so i wasn't left wanting. For me at 1.5 added more but it was essential for me to use maschine as maschine never replaced my mpc.

So guys, if I wanted to make a choice between the two, which one would come out on top offering the best options/performance for the money?

One question though...does maschine make for a good master controller like the 4k?

Or is this not even a fair comparison.

dabmeister wrote:

So guys, if I wanted to make a choice between the two, which one would come out on top offering the best options/performance for the money?

Honestly it would depend on your experince, needs, budget, and setup. I couldn't answer that really it up to the user as far as what they can do with it. Lotuz, No ID and others are monsters on it. But that doesn't mean it is for everyone.

One question though...does maschine make for a good master controller like the 4k?

No, for a hardware studio like yours the 4k is the best option. Even for a software studio master controller I would still go with the 4k as maschine is great at receiving midi. But I haven't worked out the midi out yet some others may be able to elaborate more on that. I prefer the 4k personally.

Or is this not even a fair comparison.

Unfair as maschine is more akin to a groove box than a workstation like a 4k. But it grooves well.

Also, I dont think the goal of each machine is the same.. well yes both are to make music.... but they both didn't have the same methods in mind to accomplish that. To this day everything uses midi, even if it uses midi digitally (internally) with no cables... and no question that the 4000 is the king of midi controlling.

very true,
the 4000 can control a whole bunch of gear.

Blue Haze wrote:Mostly everything you just said I CAN do on maschine point blank . Sure you can dial 7 slices you don't know that?

Sure you can adjust the start and end points!

Sure you can zoom in on the sample on the desktop with more resolution than any mpc screen even the LCD of the 5k. What are you talking about!sv

I chop manually very fast on maschine and of course done this way I can control how much overlap I want. Too much dependance on auto chop is a hindrance in any producers arsenal. As a matter of fact auto chopping is a handicap for phrases in my book unless you are dealing with a drum loop you want to separate for drum hits.

Anyways I could go on and on but what be the point if you don't already know these basic capabilities of the gear. I guess you have money to burn but, no time to learn.

A lot of falsehoods is posted on the net often so it is important to weed it out.

You are correct. A lot of falsehoods are posted on the net and you just happen to be the source.

Slicing.
Maschine's slicing capabilities do not come close to an MPC 2500/1000. These MPCs does everything Maschine does when it comes to slicing and more. Maschine's Mode slices recorded audio into fixed increments (4, 8, 16, 32) where using an MPC (JJ OS) you can freely choose the number of slices you want. The workaround using Maschine is to go into EDIT mode in order to ADD/REMOVE additional slices which you don't have to do using an MPC since you can freely select the number of slice you want such as 3, 7, 17, 33, etc. You can say this is nitpicking but it is a fact that all "real" Maschine users know. Another limitation of Maschine is that when you adjust the END point of one slice, it changes the START point of the next slice. MPC 2500/1000 (JJ OS) doesn't have this limitation when using non-destructive chopping. Non-destructive chopping allows you to freely edit the START and END points of a sliced sample without impacting the other samples adjacent to it. This was a highly sought after feature of MPC Forum members that was added to these MPCs. Maschine does not have this capability. As I am messing with Maschine as I type this, I have to mention the very annoying limitation that you must name your samples prior to recording since you can't rename them afterwards. Every MPC I can remember can do this very simple task that is not possible used Machine's OS 1.5.

So while chopping on Maschine may be faster than an MPC 4000 (which doesn't have the new Chop Shop) as you say...but from my experience, it is much slower than using the MPC 5000/2500/1000.


Zoom bug.
Since you don't use Maschine to edit (it is not very good so I understand why), you may not have encountered the zoom bug..which I have encountered when doing fine editing of samples. This isn't a problem with any MPC.
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... light=zoom

Also Maschine does not offer more detail than the MPC 5000 or 2500/1000. It may appear that way (if you are blind) because the computer monitor is larger than an MPC LCD. But if you take another look at Mashine's hardware LCD (which is an identical representation of your computer's monitor) and you will see that Maschine shows less detail when compared to the previously mentioned MPCs. Using an MPC, I can zoom all the way in to view the sample down to a single pixel on the MPCs LCD. This is not possible using Maschine. If you continue to keep posting untruths, I will be forced to take time out of my busy day and post pictures of examples. Now, I admit..I can't vouch for the MPC 4000s detail when it comes to zooming in. But i can certainly vouch for the MPC 5000/2500/1000.

No fair.

I don't care what name you forum members want to call them. However, Maschine is a sampling drum maschine and MIDI sequencer. This is exactly what an MPC is. Any of the latest MPCs (5000, 2500, and 1000) are better at sampling, sample editing, MIDI sequencing, and sound design when compared to Machine. You should know this when making a purchase.

NI Maschine Q&A (NI answers questions posted by actual Maschine users):

Q. Are there any plans for NI to update Maschine with more advanced sample manipulation options?
A. Right now we put more priority on expanding other aspects of the Maschine software, so there is nothing along those lines that I can confirm right now.

Q. One thing that i really miss in maschine is a way to record my mutes and solos as a new pattern (or overwriting the existing one as option ). In the same vein, i would like to record scene changes, mutes and solo as a song. With quantization of mutes, solos and scene changes for smooth change and no brutal sound cut off, if possible.
A. We are aware of the demand for this functionality, it's definitely something that we want to add at some point.

Q. I would love to know not only when timestretch is planned for maschine but also what type of time stretch and how it will be implemented. (Will it be overall or an option in the audio edit section next to truncate and normalize)
A. Timestretching is on our development roadmap, as a real-time feature, not just an offline process in the sample editor. Regarding the "when" - when it's ready

Q. Are you guys planning a simple way to layer samples on one pad in the next update, and if so, will the next update cost me money?
A. Probably not exactly this feature, but the next update will have a function that will allow you to do something similar. And it will definitely be free!

Q. Will there be an improved/more intuitive way to layer samples on a pad? Something like Motu BPM, GURU, Poise, where you can layer quickly, and have quick access to each layer for tweaking?

Not like the current way of keymapping which is counterproductive to layering samples quickly.

The add to map is a good feature, but not being able to quickly access each layer in a stacked sample kills the workflow, for this reason many just continue to leave samples on different pads and play them in manually.
A. Yes, we have a number of mapping improvements planned for the next versions. First we want to add more flexible mapping options via the mouse that will be similar to Kontakt. We also plan to have a "Pad Link" feature in the next update that will be an easy alternative way to layer sounds.

Beyond that, other additional mapping features are also on our roadmap for the future.


Now....MPC/MV users have these features already at the finger tips using their current MPCs/MVs (MPCs are limited to offline timestretch).

Blue Haze wrote:I also upgraded to 1.5 as I picked my unit before the update for a few week and I just learning it rather than complain about it didn't have. I had to mental adjust to it's workflow but I was inspired by the work and flow of knocksquared so i wasn't left wanting. For me at 1.5 added more but it was essential for me to use maschine as maschine never replaced my mpc.

The beta OS 1.5 was out when you picked up Maschine. The official OS 1.5 dropped nearly immediately once you got your unit. There are numerous posts to prove this.

Maschine can replace an MPC if you are looking for it to replace your MPC. There are work-arounds for everything as people have produced music with much less. But this is the comparison forum so I will continue along those lines.

dabmeister wrote:So guys, if I wanted to make a choice between the two, which one would come out on top offering the best options/performance for the money?

One question though...does maschine make for a good master controller like the 4k?

Or is this not even a fair comparison.

Maschine or any new controller has more to offer than an MPC 4000 since it wasn't designed to be a controller. The MPC 5000 with its Q-links sliders and knobs is more designed as a controller than the 4K.

If you MUST choose between Maschine and an MPC, I would select MPC all the way if buying today. There are just so much more an MPC can do that Maschine can't. This isn't the case vice versa. But if you don't need all the features of an MPC and just want a simple drum machine and sampler on a PC/Mac platform, then Maschine is a logical choice.

dabmeister wrote:which one would come out on top

Askia Shaheed wrote:Maschine is a logical choice.

NOT TRUE! SP1200, MPC3000, S950! You get that sound... then you get that sound... oh and you also get that sound.