MIDI Clock Out on Only Two MIDI ports??? + Other Fun Issues

Using 1.31 / Win 7 64 Bit on a dedicated DAW.

Just got a brand new Ren; I want to use it primarily in standalone mode. The plan was to have my two TT-303s, a MiniNova and a MicroKorg XL slaved to it - the 303s would each geat a physical MIDI out (3 & 4); the two keyboards would each get their own MIDI In and Out (1 & 1 / 2 & 2); all would be receiving MIDI clock from the Ren.

But then I go to the sync menu and see that you can only send clock out on two ports? I confirmed this in the manual as well... please tell me this is user error or something I missed? If it is true, what is the purpose of having 4 individual MIDI outs but only have the ability to send clock out on 2???

And a general question: anyone else having issues sending clock out of the Ren? Assume my hardware is configured correctly to see clock (I confirmed by sending each synth clock from an external drum machine) - however, none of my hardware sees clock from the Ren which is as frustrating as well.

Many thanks - JTR

As of 1.3.1, you can send MIDI clock out of two ports only. The Ren also can't be slaved to MIDI clock. These aspects should be improved for those that need these capabilities.

I will look into the sync issue. I am able to send MIDI sync from the Ren to an MPC 2500 appropriately.

JAH wrote:As of 1.3.1, you can send MIDI clock out of two ports only.

Thank you for confirming. You make it sound as if this is something they may be able to add down the road? I have workarounds (a Quandra through) but I was just suprised to see it limited when it is bursting with MIDI ports.

JAH wrote:The Ren also can't be slaved to MIDI clock.

Thanks for mentioning it and that is good to know; fortunatly it is not an issue for me as I want the Ren to do the driving in standalone.

JAH wrote:I will look into the sync issue. I am able to send MIDI sync from the Ren to an MPC 2500 appropriately.

Please do - it would be most appreciated. I did my homework and I read the manual before posting, but I really didn't come up with much, which tells me it's user error or people just don't sync/sequence hardware any more these days. Nothing I could do got clock over to my synths and 303s... I tried sending it via USB, via the MIDI ports. I even tried to involve MIDI OX and it did not appear as if the Ren was generating clock.

Is there something special you need to do in your project / sequence? Or does clock simply output constantly from the two selected ports?

I believe a lot of people may not be using that capability today. Since the Ren is software, it's a feature Akai could probably add in an update.

Are all the MIDI ports in the Ren assigned? Enter the MIDI preferences and ensure all are set to the RENs 1-4 outputs. And in the sync preferences, the appropriate two ports are selected to send sync. I can't assume anything so ensure you are sending MIDI Clock or MTC and that your external gear is set to receive them appropriately.

Yes, all the MIDI Out ports in the Ren are correctly assigned; the sync is on (MIDI Clock) and assigned to the correct ports, and the synths are set up to receive clock. The synths are set up correctly and I verified this by sending them clock from another drum machine.

Assuming there is no other setting I am overlooking, then for what ever reason the Ren is not sending clock. The synths don't pick it up and MIDI OX doesn't see it - it's as if I am missing a setting some place but can't seem to find it.

Do you have 1.3.1 software installed?

Ill-Green wrote:Shut it on and off about a hundred times.

I have a 14 day return window - if it comes to that, back it goes.

JAH wrote:Do you have 1.3.1 software installed?

I do - the software in the box was 1.0, but I immediatly updated to 1.3.1 before using it.

I tried to reinstall the Ren but that didn't resovle the issue: still no MIDI clock leaving either the MIDI ports or via USB (sme of my synths have USB MIDI drivers) after it is properly configured/assigned.

So, I thought what the hell: I have reinstalled Win 7 on my DAW and how have a clean testing environment (I have been meaning to do this anyway, so I used the Ren as an excuse). I will give the Ren a clean install tomorrow - there will literally be no other software on my DAW that will have competing Audio / MIDI drivers when I retest MIDI Clock. I will let you know what happens, but I will take any advice in the mean time.

Thx all - Mike

I am home now. I test MIDI Clock and MTC sync with the Ren , the MPC 2500, and MPC 4000. I am running 1.3.1 on OSX 10.7.5:

1. The Ren is able to send MIDI Clock to both MPC 2500 and 4000. I am using MIDI Monitor and the following messages are being sent:

18:22:17.316 From MPC MMC SysEx Universal Real Time 12 bytes
18:22:17.323 From MPC MMC SysEx Universal Real Time 6 bytes
18:22:17.641 From MPC MMC SysEx Universal Real Time 6 bytes


2. The Ren is not able to sent MTC to the MPC 2500 and 4000. The odd thing is that it sends the same messages as MIDI Clock.

I also checked legacy MPCs as far as how many ports you can send MIDI sync out of:
1. MPC 2500 can output MIDI Clock or MTC via all 4 outputs at the same time

2. MPC 3000 can output MIDI Clock via only one output and MTC via only one output.

3. MPC 5000 can output MIDI Clock and MTC via all 4 outs at the same time.

JAH wrote:I am home now. I test MIDI Clock and MTC sync with the Ren , the MPC 2500, and MPC 4000. I am running 1.3.1 on OSX 10.7.5:

1. The Ren is able to send MIDI Clock to both MPC 2500 and 4000. I am using MIDI Monitor and the following messages are being sent:

18:22:17.316 From MPC MMC SysEx Universal Real Time 12 bytes
18:22:17.323 From MPC MMC SysEx Universal Real Time 6 bytes
18:22:17.641 From MPC MMC SysEx Universal Real Time 6 bytes


2. The Ren is not able to sent MTC to the MPC 2500 and 4000. The odd thing is that it sends the same messages as MIDI Clock.

I also checked legacy MPCs as far as how many ports you can send MIDI sync out of:
1. MPC 2500 can output MIDI Clock or MTC via all 4 outputs at the same time

2. MPC 3000 can output MIDI Clock via only one output and MTC via only one output.

3. MPC 5000 can output MIDI Clock and MTC via all 4 outs at the same time.

Jah,

First off thank you for jumping on this and helping out / verifying on your own setup. I am sure you know how frustrating things like this can be, so it is worth gold that you were able to confirm / share your observations.

I also appreciate your info comparing the Ren to the hardware boxes. I took my MIDI expectations for the Ren from the 2500 - I just took it for granted they would handle MIDI the same way.

On to the news: after a clean system reinstall, the Ren now generates sync. But here is a thought (and you can tell me if I am nuts).... On the 1.0 version, you actually had to "check" the outputs that you wanted to sync. On 1.3.1, you don't... basically it's just a pull down. When I first installed the Ren yesterday, I went straight from 1.0 to 1.3.1 w/o using 1.0, and then the Ren acted as if it did not know I wanted to send sync.

When I did my clean reinstall, I went in to 1.0 and actually "checked" the output boxes... THEN I upgraded to 1.3.1... and then BAM, I had sync.

I don't know if checking those boxes in 1.0 had anything to do with it, but all the time I was messing around with the Ren under 1.3.1 yesterday it just "felt" like a switch was turned off and the Ren just didn't know I wanted it to output clock.

My two cents anyway.

We will see what happens once I start reinstalling my drivers for my 1818VSL and ADAT I/O, but for now we have sync on two channels, which is something!

konc3pt wrote:

Ill-Green wrote:Shut it on and off about a hundred times.

LoL

Jive, midi is one issue out of many that's currently either not available, not working or malfunctioning with ren mpc.

Thanks for confirming that Konc3pt - sometimes it's good to know it is simply in a rough state.

That said, didn't "MPC" originally stand for "MIDI Production Center"? I assumed (wrongly) that an MPC w/ 4 out ports would just send clock on all 4 ports, so I am still a bit stunned that it doesn't. The reason I opted for the Ren over Maschine MKII was that it would be a better fit for my synths and acid boxes and it has an MPC pedigree, which means it should sequence hardware very well.

Maybe people don't complain about this as much because it is a software world now and only dinosaurs prefer hardware keys and drum machines. And I am not even that old!

Oh well. On the positive front, from my long Sunday with it, it does appear to do a great job sequencing my hardware, even capturing all of the CCs and filter sweeps, etc. I guess I will just have to pester them about clock out on all four Outs.

Again - thank you all for joining the thread and helping out...

No - not dinosaurs only using hardware. The market for hardware compared to what it was seven years ago is massive. There are plenty of edm music makers out there with a multiple drum machines/synths they would need to send multiple midi clocks to.

Your not alone in your wish to have midi clock sent from all midi outs - why shouldn't it already be there - no reason.
You will need to keep badgering Akai for this.

labcoats wrote:Your not alone in your wish to have midi clock sent from all midi outs - why shouldn't it already be there - no reason.
You will need to keep badgering Akai for this.

I can think of several reasons. But the bottom line is that it is a useful function and is part of the spec of more recent MPCs.

JTR,
Can you send both Midiclock and MTC?

labcoats wrote:No - not dinosaurs only using hardware. The market for hardware compared to what it was seven years ago is massive. There are plenty of edm music makers out there with a multiple drum machines/synths they would need to send multiple midi clocks to.

Your not alone in your wish to have midi clock sent from all midi outs - why shouldn't it already be there - no reason.
You will need to keep badgering Akai for this.

Good to see I am not alone. I get a general sense that people are finding their way back to hardware and manufacturers have responded - there is amazing gear coming out all the time now. Did you see Novation just dropped a Bass Station II today? It's wicked.

JAH wrote:I can think of several reasons. But the bottom line is that it is a useful function and is part of the spec of more recent MPCs.

JTR,
Can you send both Midiclock and MTC?

I only tried clock - as far as I know my MiniNova, Korg and TT-303s only read clock, but I need to explore MTC. I will try it out and let you know. However, they all locked right in to the Ren w/ clock; needless to say I was very pleased!

More good news: I was able to send clock out via both the MIDI ports AND via the USB hubs w/o issue. I now have both of my keyboards plugged directly in to the Ren via USB and x2 MIDI ports going to the 303s. Nice and tidy.

I then installed my Presonus drivers for the 1818vsl and the Ren kept on trucking. For the hell of it I routed my gear through the 1818VSL and sent it out via the SPDIF in to the Ren, and that worked great as well.

Other than the silly limitation of only having clock on two outs, I have been very happy with it so far. Love how easy it is to sequence my gear with.

Jive Talking Robot wrote:Good to see I am not alone. I get a general sense that people are finding their way back to hardware and manufacturers have responded - there is amazing gear coming out all the time now. Did you see Novation just dropped a Bass Station II today? It's wicked.

@Labcoats....sounds like you are jumping on the band wagon. In all these months, I can't recall you discussing the fact you need this functionality...meaning you don't actually need it at all.

As far as the Bass Station...I just saw this. Will probably have to pick one up.

Jive Talking Robot wrote:Maybe people don't complain about this as much because it is a software world now and only dinosaurs prefer hardware keys and drum machines. And I am not even that old!

You're right using Hardware. It is better than software for many reasons, Hardware sounds dynamic and deeper, is really "crash-less" "Bug-less ", don't really needs Update or become obsolete when the computer setup or OS change... In fact, It's really more reliable ^^ But it's "more expensive" and takes more room and more cable and more time to setup... A lot of people expect some One-knob solution for everything... 2013...

If I could upgrade, I will go on for Hardware. Rackable Expanders, Drum-machine and Synths. I hope you will resolve your problem. I can't help, i'm just passing trough here and wanted to give my personnal opinion

Nice to meet you son of the Acid

JAH wrote:@Labcoats....sounds like you are jumping on the band wagon. In all these months, I can't recall you discussing the fact you need this functionality...meaning you don't actually need it at all.

Bandwagon - Why do I have an Innerclock Sync Gen if midi clock isnt important to me. If I didnt have a Sync Gen I would absolutely need the Ren to send clock on all midi outs. The OP needs it - the Ren should be able to do it.